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Ash for neck
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Author:  ntredwell [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Ash for neck
I have recently purchased a nice plank of quarter sawn Ash that i was going to use for another project, but was wondering if it would be suitable to use for neck wood.

I also have some reasonably tight grained Cedar of Lebanon which i was considering of trying out for a soundboard, has anyone use it before?

Any thoughts would be welcome.

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Author:  nyazzip [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
speaking as a rank amateur, i'd personally not use ash as a neck. it is dense(heavy), quite fibrous, open grained, not known for conducting vibration. very similar to oak, and even hickory, which is used for tool handles(flexible/absorbs shock and vibration). it makes me chuckle that the electric guitar crowd(with whom i belong) raves about ash, as it was used solely because it was abundant and inexpensive by Fender and some other big guitar companies back in the day, not because it had some mojo or sonic advantage...same with poplar.
if that's all you have, sure, but i don't think it is ideal.
you didn't mention what type of build: bolt on electric, through-neck, acoustic, etc....
the cedar is most likely too soft/prone to wear in the function of fretboard
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Fender chose their material based on economics, not tone. Fender himself couldn't even play the guitar, he's more of a radio/amp repairman than musician.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Nevertheless, ash does have good tone - especially for basses.
Call it a fortuitous choice for Leo.

I have no idea if ash will work for a neck.
I've never heard of any ash-necked instruments.
Why not try it, and be the trend-setter?
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
However I think the tonal effect of wood on a solid body guitar is miniscule. I am not saying there's no difference between an alder body and ash body vs. solid rosewood body, but swapping pickups or amps, or even eq settings as well as effects will have more effect on your tone than body wood. It's mostly a matter of cosmetics and weight (a solid rosewood body would be too heavy). As for neck materials I would be more concerned about stability than tone.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Quote:
However I think the tonal effect of wood on a solid body guitar is miniscule.



I am getting frickin well tired of this "tone of a solid body guitar is miniscule" crap.

Play the guitar unplugged to determine the TRUE tone of the guitar.
A solid rosewood Tele has a slow, fat attack with a dark tone - and lots of sustain.
An alder Tele with a maple/maple neck speaks quickly, and has a bright, sharp tone.

IF an electric solidbody guitar will not produce a usable tone - no pickups, no processing, no amp will make that guitar sound any better. If it has a dead spot at 2500 Hertz when playing acoustically, nothing electronic will replace it.

A SOLIDBODY ELECTRIC GUITAR IS STILL AN ACOUSTIC GUITAR AT ITS CORE!!!
Everything else is just a filter.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Yes, it seems to work quite well. I have a Guild just like this one. It has ash body and neck. No problems after 30+ years
Author:  Spyder [ Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
I'm building one.

Of course, it's my first, so what do I know? Pretty piece of wood though.
Author:  ntredwell [ Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Thanks for the comments guys they are as always very helpful, I will plane a piece up and see what its like before making up my mind.

Don't suppose anyone has used Ceder or Lebanon for soundboard material?

Nick

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Author:  Rodger Knox [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Chris Pile wrote:
Quote:
However I think the tonal effect of wood on a solid body guitar is miniscule.



I am getting frickin well tired of this "tone of a solid body guitar is miniscule" crap.

Play the guitar unplugged to determine the TRUE tone of the guitar.
A solid rosewood Tele has a slow, fat attack with a dark tone - and lots of sustain.
An alder Tele with a maple/maple neck speaks quickly, and has a bright, sharp tone.

IF an electric solidbody guitar will not produce a usable tone - no pickups, no processing, no amp will make that guitar sound any better. If it has a dead spot at 2500 Hertz when playing acoustically, nothing electronic will replace it.

A SOLIDBODY ELECTRIC GUITAR IS STILL AN ACOUSTIC GUITAR AT ITS CORE!!!
Everything else is just a filter.


I have to agree with what Mr.Pile says except the last statement.
A solidbody is not an acoustic, although some of the same physics apply.
String tension does not rotate the bridge, or deflect the top.
There is no "main air" or top resonance, and the strings don't drive the top to make sound, however,
There are resonant properties for a solidbody which are similiar to acoustic resonant properties, but the mechanics of sound production are fundamentally different. A solidbody does not depend on the resonant properties to produce sound, the motion of the string relative to the pickup does that. The wood tone comes from the pickup moving relative to the string, and it is the body resonance that moves the pickup.
Now the order of magnitude of pickup motion is very small when compared to string motion, so you would expect the effect to be small, but even small differences can make larges changes in tone.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
I think Ash would be fine. I used oak on my last build and it's wonderful.

Fender may have used Ash because it was cheap but after Hendrix, Clapton et al created music with it then it has become desirable... Chicken and egg.
Author:  P Bill [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Don't forget Swamp Ash is used for solid body guitars and basses. It is lighter and more resonate than common Ash.
Author:  nyazzip [ Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Quote:
Play the guitar unplugged to determine the TRUE tone of the guitar.


please, quote me some hit/timeless classic rock/jazz/blues records that feature a solid body electric guitar that is miked and not plugged in. after that, we may discuss "TRUE tone of the guitar".
:)
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
I've been repairing and building since the late 70's.
I stand by my statements.
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
ntredwell wrote:
Don't suppose anyone has used Ceder or Lebanon for soundboard material?

I don't see you ever got a reply to this supplementary question. Cedar of Lebanon (Cedrus lebani ) is a "true" cedar, in that it belongs to the genus Cedrus, but it's in the same family Cupressaceae as the North American "cedars" in the genera Callitropsis, Chamaecyparis, Juniperus and Thuja, as well as other relatives such as Australian white cypress pine, baldcypress, "true" cypress, dawn redwood, giant sequoia, redwood, and Japanese sugi. A very large taxonomic group that is hugely important for timber globally, and you'll recognize many as commonly used for instruments.

I don't recall ever hearing of it being used for soundboards -- it's substantially more dense than the spruces and has a less desirable stiffness to weight ratio. I have heard of it being used for necks, and I've seen at least one European tonewood dealer advertising back/side sets, presumably for classical or flamenco instruments. You'd better like the smell, because it's quite powerful and hangs about.
Author:  truckjohn [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Nearly every single wood there is has been used successfully for neck wood.... All the way from Spruce and Cedar to Rosewoods.... My favorite acoustic is my Oakie... which has an Oak back, sides, and neck.... if Oak is OK - then Ash should be fine too....

On Cedar of lebanon.... As a topwood... Once again.. A lot of different stuff is out there.. Plenty of Mahogany, Maple, and Birch top guitars out there.... Plywood is a popular topwood choice these days if numbers mean anything.... so I suppose you could do it to be different... Personally - I would rather use it for a Back, sides, and neck wood... but that's just me....

Thanks
Author:  Shaw [ Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Great for electric guitar bodies. A bit heavy for necks but that doesn't mean you can't use it.
Author:  ernie [ Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
English white ash , is not the same as most of our n. american varieties. I/ve used local ash for a stand up bass neck , hvy and solid . English ash turns well too, as it is not as coarse as our version here. You might have to fill the pores several times to get a clean slick surface take your time.
Author:  ntredwell [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
I think i will give it a try and see what happens. Thanks for the advice

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Author:  dzsmith [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
I'd see if it can be easily worked: carved, planed, scraped, sanded, etc.
I'd get a feel for how stiff the neck would be before carving.
After cutting out the rough neck blank, I'd let it sit for a while to make sure it is stable.
Ash may have all of these qualities.

I have tried a variety of local woods with good and bad results, so I play with the unknown stuff before I commit.
Author:  dzsmith [ Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ash for neck
Chris Pile wrote:
Quote:
However I think the tonal effect of wood on a solid body guitar is miniscule.



I am getting frickin well tired of this "tone of a solid body guitar is miniscule" crap.

Play the guitar unplugged to determine the TRUE tone of the guitar.
A solid rosewood Tele has a slow, fat attack with a dark tone - and lots of sustain.
An alder Tele with a maple/maple neck speaks quickly, and has a bright, sharp tone.

IF an electric solidbody guitar will not produce a usable tone - no pickups, no processing, no amp will make that guitar sound any better. If it has a dead spot at 2500 Hertz when playing acoustically, nothing electronic will replace it.

A SOLIDBODY ELECTRIC GUITAR IS STILL AN ACOUSTIC GUITAR AT ITS CORE!!!
Everything else is just a filter.

Plug your guitar into an amp. Tap on the body. Hear anything? Now dampen the strings. How did the tapping get into the strings? Now imagine the bridge transferring the string vibrations down through the body and then back up to the bridge and into the strings. It seems to reason that the body would have some resonant characteristics based on species and shape. It would be interesting to mount a transducer to the body to see if the body has a resonant frequency and test several samples, but I lack the equipment. I believe in you Chris!
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